| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| MisterBadIdea |
Posted - 08/12/2008 : 23:42:18
A friend of mine told me she had just turned vegetarian for moral reasons. I rolled my eyes and condescended to her, and I think I pissed her off. I feel like an ass about it. Vegetarians don't hurt nobody, right?
Because of that disagreement, I've been reading up more about vegetarianism, and about the arguments for animal rights, free-range poultry, and so on. I don't think they've put much of a dent in my omnivore status, but I'm curious to see what the man on the street thinks. You veggies out there: What tipped you over? You meateaters: How can you possibly justify what you do? Do you know what goes on in slaughterhouses? You really should, because it's really gross. What do you think, peoples? |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| BaftaBaby |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 22:08:34
quote:
Originally posted by Whippersnapper
Is there some reason why making "clever" arguments to justify mass killing makes me feel just a little disgusted?
Nawh - you're just naturally disgusting 
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| Whippersnapper. |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 20:42:17
Not much of a point though.
There is no moral equivalent between killing something which will harm you and killing something which will not harm you. To try to equate them is absurd, just as its absurd to think a court would equate a killing in self-defence with a pre-meditated murder.
It's also wrong to equate the killing of insects which occurs as an unavoidable biproduct of horticulture with the deliberate killing of "food species" because one is necessary and the other is not.
Is there some reason why making "clever" arguments to justify mass killing makes me feel just a little disgusted?
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| BaftaBaby |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 18:29:19
quote:
Originally posted by duh Improper Username
quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
Vegetarians shouldn't believe they aren't killing animals by their choice. Every time a crop is released from the soil many tiny animals die. The animals killed in vegetable production are insects not mammals, but they are still animals, so where's the moral line? Four legs bad, eight legs good?
Consider also, the human immune system which kills countless bacteria and viruses. Let us not demonstrate speciesism against those either.
Quite right!  Or ... as a vegan friend of mine once said when I pointed out these anomalies: "But then I couldn't eat anything!" My point exactly 
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| duh |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 16:56:05
quote:
Originally posted by BaftaBabe
Vegetarians shouldn't believe they aren't killing animals by their choice. Every time a crop is released from the soil many tiny animals die. The animals killed in vegetable production are insects not mammals, but they are still animals, so where's the moral line? Four legs bad, eight legs good?
Consider also, the human immune system which kills countless bacteria and viruses. Let us not demonstrate speciesism against those either. |
| w22dheartlivie |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 07:54:44
Hmm. So much for the big meat sale at Miller's IGA next week... |
| Salopian |
Posted - 08/13/2008 : 19:17:54
On the hunting v. animal husbandry issue, anyone who uses prehistoric arguments is on a firmer footing if they eat only hunted meat. Even so, it is incredibly rocky ground for a number of reasons.
On animals' conditions v. killing them, there are two ways of looking at it. Animals are evolved to stay alive as long as they can (or at least till they are past breeding age or other usefulness for the species), so one can potentially treat them as wanting to stay alive at all costs. They also have no sense that their suffering will go on as long as they live, and thus do not experience one aspect of the misery of people in equivalent conditions. On the other hand, they also have no sense of hope that their suffering will stop, thus removing from them a key thing that allows people to endure misery.
On dairy products (and eggs), much more than cereals etc., vegetarians need to know that a lot of animals are killed for their production. While cows will carry on producing milk if they keep being milked, they produce a lot more if they keep having calves -- so that is what happens, and the male calves become veal. And of course, egg-laying chickens past their prime are sent off for nuggets or pet food. That's on top of all the male chicks that are just dropped into a big chopper; I don't think their bodies go to serve any function at all. |
| BiggerBoat |
Posted - 08/13/2008 : 17:43:42
quote:
Originally posted by Whippersnapper
And you need to learn to appreciate the almost infinite varieties of beans which could be gracing that compassionate casserole.
I guess I don't have my finger on the pulses... |
| Whippersnapper. |
Posted - 08/13/2008 : 17:04:01
quote:
Originally posted by BiggerBoat
quote:
Originally posted by turrell
Well I suppose its because you are an omnivore and they are solely a herbivore.
As for the bbq's, I assume its for the beer and/or girls.
Yes exactly, I'm an omnivore. What do you feed an omnivore?
You feed an omnivore anything you want.
And you need to learn to appreciate the almost infinite varieties of beans which could be gracing that compassionate casserole.
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| BiggerBoat |
Posted - 08/13/2008 : 15:10:38
quote:
Originally posted by turrell
Well I suppose its because you are an omnivore and they are solely a herbivore.
As for the bbq's, I assume its for the beer and/or girls.
Yes exactly, I'm an omnivore. What do you feed an omnivore? Meat and veg. I want carcass. Give me carcass. |
| Airbolt |
Posted - 08/13/2008 : 15:09:44
Some tales of misadventures on holiday.
I was in Italy on a Christmas holiday a few years ago. The hotel was on Lake Garda and kept open rather resentfully. Anyway comes Christmas Dinner and most people are eating turkey. I got spaghetti in a weak tomato sauce! I asked the tour guide and she said " Oh, they dont really understand vegetarianism in Italy". My tour operators must have known but took the money anyway! BTW if you are going to Italy they cook the vegetables that you have with the meal then let them go cold before serving. Or maybe it was just this hotel!
Prior to going partly veggie ( i eat fish ) I had a chinese meal in Brussels. The meat was odd, kinda silky and definately NOT chicken. I didn't finish it and had a horrible feeling it was another animal.
Long time ago I did a student trip to Amsterdam. Everywhere in shop doorways were these machines selling sausages. I used to have the Frikandel - a huge spice laden sausage of unidentified origin.
Finally , on a trip to Tokyo , i found that i lived off Fillet meals from McDonalds! I just couldnt identify the food on the menus altho they had little plastic models of the food in the window! i would march into McDnalds and go " Fillet!" with a cheesy smile ( crazy Westerner!)
This was all a few years ago. I got plane phobia and really dont travel much now!
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| turrell |
Posted - 08/13/2008 : 14:40:49
quote:
Originally posted by BiggerBoat
Why the double-standards, that's what I want to know?
And why do they bother going to barbeques? Surely there's only so much grilled haloumi you can eat??
Well I suppose its because you are an omnivore and they are solely a herbivore.
As for the bbq's, I assume its for the beer and/or girls. |
| Whippersnapper. |
Posted - 08/13/2008 : 14:27:07
There is. And I don't. |
| BiggerBoat |
Posted - 08/13/2008 : 14:11:59
When vegetarians come to my house for dinner I cook them a vegetarian meal; when I go to dinner at their's do I get served a big juicy steak?? No, I get a bean frickin' casserole every time. Why the double-standards, that's what I want to know?
And why do they bother going to barbeques? Surely there's only so much grilled haloumi you can eat?? |
| Cheese_Ed |
Posted - 08/13/2008 : 13:59:24
quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
quote:
Originally posted by Cheese_Ed
Didn't we have foie gras as a starter?
Pretty sure I've never eaten it. Or even seen it. Wouldn't touch it. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras
OK, we just had plain old p�t� with congealed fat on top. Good stuff!
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| Whippersnapper. |
Posted - 08/13/2008 : 13:23:37
quote:
Originally posted by Cheese_Ed
quote:
Originally posted by Se�n
[quote]Originally posted by MisterBadIdea
My
And don't get me started on foie gras...
Didn't we have foie gras as a starter?
Forget meat and veggies, let's get down to the really important issue, where does everybody stand on dairy products?
Actually regularly eating dairy products is a very recent development in human diet - I read somewhere about 10,000 years only.
Therefore the human body has had very little evolutionary time to adapt to it.
For the next many thousand years the high saturated fat content of dairy foods will continue to be highly dangerous to the cardiovascular system and should be avoided as far as possible.
Hope you got that message, Cheese_Ed!
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