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duh 
"catpurrs"
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 Posted - 05/15/2007 : 06:56:03
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I've drunk a couple of beers this evening, but am still reeling from the force of evil that was directed at me earlier this evening.
I am fortunate. The evil was only a verbal expression in the form of screaming over the telephone. This was, on a worldly scale, nothing at all!
The woman's shrieking nearly busted my eardrums. Before she lost control, she was guileful and mocking and mean. When I expressed the opinion that she was behaving in an evil way, she lost it, and then she hung up on me.
I'm thinking...wow...this is someone who is a garden variety Narcissist. One of those people who appears quite ordinary most of the time, until triggered by what they perceive as an insult or lack of respect, etc. Then they just go ape-shit, with no attempt to reel themselves in or to stand outside themselves and see how insanely they are behaving.
No wonder these people usually get their way. As a result of the 'conversation' I've lost my stomach for the controversial issue at hand. I'm dropping it and walking away. This person is just so fucking nuts, it isn't worth the possible harm to my health and welfare to hold out for the right thing to be done.
Is this somewhat similar to the issue of how to deal effectively with terrorism? Some folks see the insanity of the terrorist and recognize the futility of trying to fight them. The good folks decide to walk away, and circle the wagons. Other folks see the insanity of the terrorist and decide that the best thing to do is to engage them in battle. But the supply of terrorists is virtually inexhaustible. Evil breeds at a prodigious rate.
Even within our civilized society, there are people who sometimes catch us off guard by how evil they can behave. These aren't the obvious ones, but the people who appear quite normal on the outside, until their internal evil is triggered and released. People with whom we may have thought we had a lot in common show themselves to be irrational, excessively emotional, and without empathy.
The Bible says not to repay evil with evil. Jesus charged his followers to love their enemies. Being a Christian is hard! We have Jews and atheists on the fourum as well, and perhaps Muslims also. This Fourum is one of the most loving venues I have ever experienced. What is the secret to the peace and affection that we enjoy here, and how can I carry that over into my real life? |
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Sean 
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 05/15/2007 : 06:59:29
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Interesting post. And one of my favourite topics.  But before I go ranting, there are more important things to do here. Specifically cook dinner and eat it.  Back later.  |
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thefoxboy 
"Four your eyes only."
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Posted - 05/15/2007 : 07:08:05
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What was the telemarketer trying to sell you? 
I've got more important things to do right now too, like, leave work, get home and play with my son, eat and go play poker. |
Edited by - thefoxboy on 05/15/2007 07:10:19 |
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Beanmimo 
"August review site"
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Posted - 05/15/2007 : 09:48:43
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quote:
What is the secret to the peace and affection that we enjoy here, and how can I carry that over into my real life?
The love of movies and the words we use and a little bit of healthy competition.
On the whole, no one here wants to be too extreme for fear of losing the engaging fun it provides.
Sadly life isn't as uncomplicated as Fwfr (not to say that it is an easy site to build, I mean the taking part) and therefore the stresses and strains have to fissure out somewhere.
I myself make 50 calls a day to promote my business association. In my professional capacity I cannot lose my temper it would be detrimental to my job but I come across these people who think because I have invaded their space that they can treat me like shit. It aint fair but it's life. They should not be in business or just go ex-directory.
So I go home and watch reruns of Seinfeld, Father Ted, Black Books and Curb your Enthusiasm before facing the world with a newly formed smile on my face. |
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Shiv 
"What a Wonderful World"
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Posted - 05/15/2007 : 11:23:05
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Without a context for why this person 'lost it' it's hard to know if your 'terrorism' analogy works. Was the discussion over something significant or insignificant (I see that you don't want to give details).
I am sure the recent convening of the Northern Ireland Assembly will have made international news. Martin McGuinnes and Ian Paisley are finding a way of working together, although not 3 years ago Paisley denounced McGuinness and Gerry Adams as terrorists stating that the Sinn Fein party was still supporting the work of the IRA. He said he would NEVER sit in government with them. McGuinness and Adams were committed to finding a peaceful solution and they got there. Where does their 'terrorist' acts fit into that picture? Evil turned Good?
The recent 'War on Terror', a phrase coined by Bush, has given a new meaning to 'terrorism'. Suddenly there is no political motivation behind terrorism, it is just about 'evil' people. I don't subscribe to that. It doesn't work for the above example, and it doesn't work for the US's targets at the moment - the Arab nations.
I have always supported the Irish Republican cause, but have never condoned the actions of either the IRA or the Unionist groups that carried their political cause to the extreme and killed the innocent. Just because that was happening didn't mean that I then decided the cause itself wasn't right. In any case - the 'other side' was behaving just as badly.
Another issue is that there were many sides to that story, but it was always the IRA that caught the flack. The Ulster Defence Regiment - the police of Northern Ireland - were corrupt and not beyond reproach either. Yet their actions were condoned as 'acts of war'. Is that a balanced picture?
My point - you can believe in something strongly and not be evil. The United States is not beyond criticism in its carriage of what it believed (or what the government believed at least). Vietnam, Nicaragua, Cuba, Iraq, Colombia, Afghanistan and so on. Evil was perpertrated against the innocent in the name of good. But what exactly was that 'good' and who benefits from it in the long run?
My point? I do not think that the personality you describe, of a person who will not be thwarted or deflected from their beliefs and carries that out by aggression and oppression, is limited to a model of what a 'terrorist' would look like. I could use the word 'evil' against people I don't agree with - but it would come straight back at me!
I am not a Christian, but I believe that everyone has the right to their own beliefs. Other people don't. It doesn't make them evil, per se. What might make them evil is how they carry out their opposition to other's beliefs.
Sometimes the evil that is called 'terrorism' and impacts horribly on the innocent is born out of right. When you are desperate and you have nowhere else to go, violence seems like an answer. It may be the wrong answer - but the question came from the right place.
Nelson Mandela was in jail for 27 years. They may have let him out earlier, but he would never state that he would speak out and condemn violence in the struggle for a fair South Africa. It was a principle -not a belief that he or anyone else had the right to carry out violence to others. Just a reality check. Violence is how the Apartheid government was oppressing the people, so how could he reject retaliation as a possibility? They were wanting him to acknowledge the disempowerment of all the peoples of SA by stating publically that they didn't have a right to fight back against the minority government oppressing them.
Ghandi took the opposite extreme. Was he any more successful than the ANC and others in South Africa? Not really.
When it comes down to it, evil comes from within people. If you believe in a cause, and you see violence as an acceptable solution, how is that different to countries going to war? Someone always starts it!
I know some of my statements are a bit simplisitc, but I am mostly reacting to the idea of ALL terrorism being perpertrated ONLY by 'evil' people. What exactly is 'evil'. Philosophers have been debating that for thousands of years!
And more to the point - what is terrorism really? |
Edited by - Shiv on 05/15/2007 11:27:18 |
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ChocolateLady 
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 05/15/2007 : 11:57:48
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| I wouldn't call that person's actions terrorism. Sounds more like Bi-Polarism to me. |
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Whippersnapper. 
"A fourword thinking guy."
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Posted - 05/15/2007 : 12:37:10
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Sounds more like terrierism to me.
As for what the Bible says, we Jews go with the "eye for an eye" bit.
Which may explain why there are so many Jewish optometrists. 
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Shiv
"What a Wonderful World"
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Posted - 05/15/2007 : 13:37:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Whippersnapper
Sounds more like terrierism to me.
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duh
"catpurrs"
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Posted - 05/15/2007 : 16:51:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Beanmimo
On the whole, no one here wants to be too extreme for fear of losing the engaging fun it provides.
I often find myself giggling hysterically while I read posts here and play the games. In our more serious discussions, I enjoy reading different points of view from fellow fwiffers. Because fwiffers express their views in polite and intelligent (and often humorous) ways, I can consider those views without feeling disrespected. Unthreatened, I can relax and consider whether there are differing views that I may want to incorporate into my own.
quote:
Originally posted by BeanmimoI myself make 50 calls a day to promote my business association. In my professional capacity I cannot lose my temper it would be detrimental to my job but I come across these people who think because I have invaded their space that they can treat me like shit. It aint fair but it's life. They should not be in business or just go ex-directory.
I once worked in a retail store. That experience convinced me that 90 percent of the human population needs to be shot and put out of its misery.  No, actually what I saw was that a large proportion of folks seem to carry an enormous chip on their shoulder, just begging someone to knock it off.
The reason I have drawn parallels between people who practice meanness and terrorists is because it appears to me that civilized behavior is such a thin veneer and that there are mini-terrorists who go through life getting their way simply by being such assholes that no one else has the stomach to stand up to them.
I've read commentaries about how political/religious extremism models narcissism. Narcissism is a point on a line, at which at the far end is Psychopathy.
What would be world be like, if after giving everyone enough to survive comfortably (utopia!), we also pumped Prozac into the water supplies?
Whippersnapper was being funny with his 'terrerism' comment, but I see something of truth in it. Here in the US, at dog shows, some Terrier breeds are given an opportunity to mildly 'spar' to demonstrate their proper Terrier disposition.
My fil says that we can't change the world, but we can try to improve our own little corner of it.
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Downtown
"Welcome back, Billy Buck"
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Posted - 05/15/2007 : 19:12:00
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| I'm a little uncomfortable with parallels being drawn between poor conflict-resolution skills and terrorism. |
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Conan The Westy
"Father, Faithful Friend, Fwiffer"
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Posted - 05/15/2007 : 21:44:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Downtown
I'm a little uncomfortable with parallels being drawn between poor conflict-resolution skills and terrorism.
Although terrorism displays VERY poor conflict resolution skills.
I read somewhere recently that the sociopaths in many workplaces are promoted due to their aggressive dealings with others being seen as having a go-getter attitude. |
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Tori
"I don't get it...."
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Posted - 05/15/2007 : 22:03:40
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I'm a go getter.  |
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MisterBadIdea
"PLZ GET MILK, KTHXBYE"
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Posted - 05/15/2007 : 22:11:08
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What is terrorism?
It's the use of terror to achieve goals. It's not blowing up tanks, suicide bombers targeting buildings, or so on. It's the use of scare tactics to promote a political cause, largely through the killing of civilians or public torture. |
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duh
"catpurrs"
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Posted - 05/15/2007 : 22:30:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Tori
I'm a go getter.
I take it that you 'go get' that and 'go get' this... |
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Tori
"I don't get it...."
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Posted - 05/15/2007 : 22:32:36
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quote:
Originally posted by duh
quote:
Originally posted by Tori
I'm a go getter.
I take it that you 'go get' that and 'go get' this...
Awwww, how did you know? :)
It's rather embarrassing but very true.
I'm sorry you had such a rough time. Are things looking up now? |
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Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
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Posted - 05/16/2007 : 01:56:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Downtown
I'm a little uncomfortable with parallels being drawn between poor conflict-resolution skills and terrorism.
I agree. I can't see the connection. Actually 'terrorism' is so loaded I don't use the word at all. Whether someone is a 'terrorist' or a 'righteous hero' just depends on whose side you're on. And if the stakes are high, I think most people will be prepared to kill for an ideology. E.g., if Nazis or their ilk are attacking your country and committing genocide against ethnic minorities I suspect most would be prepared to kill them and consider it righteous. I certainly would.
I don't think someone with an anger-management problem and someone who kills for an ideology are comparable.
quote:
Originally posted by Conan The Reporter
I read somewhere recently that the sociopaths in many workplaces are promoted due to their aggressive dealings with others being seen as having a go-getter attitude.
Yep, I agree with this. The qualities in sociopaths that make them unpleasant people to interact with in social settings help them climb up the corporate ladder by destroying their competition and exhibiting decisiveness.
Sociopaths are also very useful people in wartime, they make excellent soldiers. They're able to emotionlessly conduct dangerous missions at great personal peril, quickly slaughter any enemy in their way and accomplish the mission with clinical precision, just like our favourite sociopath James Bond. Hence they become heroes and receive Purple Hearts, Victoria Crosses etc.
Also, we shareholders benefit from our corporations behaving like sociopaths. Specifically:- prioritising self-growth over ethics, remorselessly destroying competition, refusal to accept responsibility for adverse consequences of activities, and in general pursuing self-growth at any cost to others.
So, although normal empathetic human beings don't want to interact with sociopaths on a personal level, many (most?) of us want them to run our governments, run our corporations, run and populate our military, and even sometimes be our fictional heroes. |
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Evil or 'people of the lie'
