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GHcool 
"Forever a curious character."
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 Posted - 01/14/2009 : 06:59:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
Well, she was mainly livid about the Israeli action, and saw the film as being from a different viewpoint, which I would say was accurate enough. (I didn't find it particularly ideologically ambivalent.) However, it still of course was not meaningful to add it to her objections about the current events. She was easy enough to convince on that front; it took a bit longer to persuade her that it was neither accurate nor productive to describe anyone involved as "Nazis".
I hope you did persuade her in the end, but chances are a person with that kind of prejudice is a lost cause. |
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ChocolateLady 
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Salopian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 01/14/2009 : 08:08:43
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quote:
Originally posted by GHcool
I hope you did persuade her in the end, but chances are a person with that kind of prejudice is a lost cause.
Oh yeah, I convinced her. I don't give up on things like that. I also persuaded her that Hamas being democratically elected does not make it fine. I'm opposed to the bombing myself but that's all the more reason to use totally neutral terms and not see it in black and white, as anything else is counter-productive. |
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GHcool
"Forever a curious character."
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Posted - 01/14/2009 : 17:45:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
quote:
Originally posted by GHcool
I hope you did persuade her in the end, but chances are a person with that kind of prejudice is a lost cause.
Oh yeah, I convinced her. I don't give up on things like that.
Thanks for that. Hopefully she won't make such statements in the future (at least not in your presence). |
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ChocolateLady
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Salopian
"Four ever European"
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ChocolateLady
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 01/15/2009 : 12:36:40
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The thing is, they actually were democratically elected. The people thought that Fatah had failed them and had been taking the money into their own pockets - which was true. Hamas ran on a platform of stopping that corruption and returning the money to the people, and helping those that needed it. And prior to those elections, Hamas actually did lots of good things for the Palestinian people. But as soon as they gained power, they too proved to be equally corrupt - if not more corrupt than Fatah. I remember the rioting in the streets several months after Hamas was elected, protesting that the money and social aid had stopped completely instead of increasing as Hamas had promised prior to the elections. Since their rise to power, they've become more and more militaristic, and their social conscience has dissappeared altogether.
I have a friend who has been working for nearly 20 years here with a Finnish NGO providing food and medications to Palestinians. He tells me that since Hamas took over, he has had many of his shipments confiscated and those things that they say they say they'll distribute, end up in unmarked trucks and who knows where these end up? (One source says the stuff gets sold to the highest bidders, but that's not totally documented.) Then last week he saw one of those trucks on the news as it was trying to enter Gaza via the "safe" road where the Israelis are allowing humanitarian assistance to get in. As he watched, he saw Hamas blow up the road with one of their rockets. From what he could gather, most of the contents of the truck were distroyed. What kind of leaders do that to their own people?
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Salopian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 01/15/2009 : 13:01:34
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quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
The thing is, they actually were democratically elected.
Yep, sorry if what I said was amiguous -- I didn't mean that their having been democratically elected was inaccurate, just that it was insufficient.
quote:
What kind of leaders do that to their own people?
Lots of kinds, unfortunately. Or, rather, the same kind in lots of places. |
Edited by - Salopian on 01/15/2009 13:02:21 |
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GHcool
"Forever a curious character."
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Posted - 01/15/2009 : 19:24:09
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quote:
Originally posted by ChocolateLady
He tells me that since Hamas took over, he has had many of his shipments confiscated and those things that they say they say they'll distribute, end up in unmarked trucks and who knows where these end up? (One source says the stuff gets sold to the highest bidders, but that's not totally documented.)
More than one source actually. A spokesperson from the United Nations Relief and Works Agency confirms this practice as does the Israel Defense Forces. |
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ChocolateLady
"500 Chocolate Delights"
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Posted - 01/25/2009 : 12:48:34
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That said, my Finnish friend just told me that he's busy getting medical physio therapy equipment and prostesis into the West Bank right now. Its to help rehabilitate the Fatah members who had their legs shot off by Hamas when they were in Gaza.
What connects this to the thread and this film are the semi-similarities of what Hamas did and still does to Fatah members in Gaza and what the Lebanese Phalangists did to the Palestinian refugees in Sabra and Shatila. The big difference is that Hamas and Fatah are technically both allied against Israel (although they're not very cooperative between themselves), while the Lebanese Phalangists were basically allies with Israel during that war, and Israel might have been able to prevent that massacre (and certainly should have done more to stop it after it started).
This is not a political movie. It is one man's journey to light the blackout in his memory of what happened to him during that war. No one points any fingers that haven't been pointed and proven worthy of blame before. There's no making heros of villans or visa versa. Moreover, it is a piece of art that is worthy of every accolade and award it gets, and for that in particular, I hope as many people as possible get to see this movie.
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Edited by - ChocolateLady on 01/25/2009 12:49:14 |
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Salopian
"Four ever European"
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Posted - 01/25/2009 : 14:39:46
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I cannot agree that it is not political. Almost every point in every film has been made before, so that doesn't determine whether something is political or not.
Aesthetically, it's very good, but I don't think that's its particularly special quality. For me, it's the concept of animating it that's special, so that the documentary, autobiopic and dream portions can be unified.
By the way, I'm amazed that you've only just seen it. Surely it has been out there for ages? |
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Waltz With Bashir
