| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Salopian 
"Four ever European"
|
 Posted - 10/14/2007 : 19:48:44
|
| Please, please, please can the punctuation of my reviews not be 'corrected'? I'll now have to wait months and months for a certain review to be re-approved. I know what I'm talking about when it comes to punctuation (at least as much as any MERP or Benj) and it really is quite annoying to have a completely idiosyncratic notion imposed on a review. (N.B. The case in question is not at all ambiguous or controversial - the form I submitted was totally standard.) |
|
|
TitanPa 
"Here four more"
|
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 06:54:31
|
| Your preaching to the choir. |
 |
|
|
Ali 
"Those aren't pillows."
|
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 07:44:17
|
What is the correction in question?
|
|
|
|
Salopian
"Four ever European"
|
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 09:00:59
|
| It was a space being inserted after a slash. Benj's view (gained from where, it's not really clear) is that all punctuation marks are supposed to have a space afterwards and no space before, even dashes and slashes. |
|
|
|
Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
|
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 09:27:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
It was a space being inserted after a slash. Benj's view (gained from where, it's not really clear) is that all punctuation marks are supposed to have a space afterwards and no space before, even dashes and slashes.
I thought this was automated? I.e., done automatically by the site code? Hasn't it always been done this way?
I vaguely recall this being discussed years ago, and thought that that was the explanation.  |
|
|
|
Salopian
"Four ever European"
|
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 09:40:09
|
| Nope, it stopped happening when the MERPs came along. I have successfully submitted loads with correct spacing since then. |
|
|
|
benj clews 
"...."
|
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 11:04:18
|
Sorry to tell you this, but most browsers (IE7 included) do not wrap text on a slash without a space. For the simple reason of allowing as much flexibility as possible in text arrangement to minimize layout problems, I will always insert a space after a slash. I don't care about correct formatting in this instance- modifying content to fit best into the site is paramount. I also don't care if the slash is somewhere that can't push out the formatting at present- the site design can and will change at some point and I want the content to be as adaptable as possible to different resolution media when the time comes.
There is no debate on this issue- the disclaimer on the sign up page states content may be modified in order to fit the format of the site. |
|
|
|
Shiv 
"What a Wonderful World"
|
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 11:05:29
|
| Who is 'correcting' your punctuation? I suppose what I mean is, who are you asking to not correct your punctuation - the MERPs or fwiffers? |
|
|
|
Salopian
"Four ever European"
|
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 12:09:34
|
quote:
Originally posted by benj clews
Sorry to tell you this, but most browsers (IE7 included) do not wrap text on a slash without a space. For the simple reason of allowing as much flexibility as possible in text arrangement to minimize layout problems, I will always insert a space after a slash. I don't care about correct formatting in this instance- modifying content to fit best into the site is paramount. I also don't care if the slash is somewhere that can't push out the formatting at present- the site design can and will change at some point and I want the content to be as adaptable as possible to different resolution media when the time comes.
Benj, that really is not reasonable at all:
(i) There are so few cases where the "A/B" would not fit in full on the following line that it is enormously inefficient to insert spaces in all of them just for the sake of the few where it would not. (This will apply to any design just the same, as most instances are shorter than many single longer words on here, which would have to be accommodated by a new design too.)
(ii) The MERPs do not seem to apply this rule so there is even less point in you doing so, as most cases slip through anyway.
(iii) Inserting spaces after slashes is no more correct than randomly inserting spaces in the middle of long words, so why not do that as well on the off chance that they mess up the formatting?!
(iv) The reviews should determine the parameters of the formatting, not vice versa.
(v) I am more than happy to start reporting reviews that don't fit the formatting if that would be helpful. If the formatting changes so dramatically that a different (very small) set of reviews needs to be reported instead, so be it.
(vi) The formatting notion does not provide any basis for thinking that there there should not be spaces before dashes (but perhaps you do not delete those any more).
(vii) Yes, I know it's your site, but that doesn't give you the right to override universal rules. (If I put up a sign at my house saying that I am allowed to murder people there, it doesn't make it true.) |
Edited by - Salopian on 10/15/2007 12:20:49 |
|
|
|
Salopian
"Four ever European"
|
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 12:10:17
|
quote:
Originally posted by Shiv
Who is 'correcting' your punctuation? I suppose what I mean is, who are you asking to not correct your punctuation - the MERPs or fwiffers?
MERPs, of course (in theory; in practice, Benj) |
|
|
|
Sean
"Necrosphenisciform anthropophagist."
|
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 12:31:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
(vii) Yes, I know it's your site, but that doesn't give you the right to override universal rules. (If I put up a sign at my house saying that I am allowed to murder people there, it doesn't make it true.)
Murder is a crime - a breach of common law. Nobody gets the right to opt out of common law. 'Incorrect' punctuation is not covered by common law. Benj can make any rules he likes here.
Or to make it simpler:- the murder victim in your house is a victim and did not have the option of not being murdered. You have the option of participating here or not.
I'm not commenting on punctuation vs. formatting here, just pointing out that the punctuation vs. murder analogy is incorrect as well as being completely over the top. |
|
|
|
Salopian
"Four ever European"
|
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 12:38:29
|
I didn't claim that the level of seriousness was the same, but the analogy is fine: if they were both legal issues then it wouldn't even really be an analogy. (So yes, one of course has the legal right to space wrongly, but that's not the point - they don't have the ethical right within the context of the co-operative enterprise of communicating comprehensibly.)
We used a different analogy last time. Let's say we all go over to Benj's house to play football. Because it's his house, would it be reasonable of him to insist that we play by his own rules, even though there are rules which are universally established and under which everyone already knows how to play? I don't think so. |
Edited by - Salopian on 10/15/2007 12:41:08 |
|
|
|
benj clews
"...."
|
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 12:38:42
|
I reiterate, this is not up for debate. You're clearly not considering the bigger picture- mobile devices, visually impaired users requiring the font made large are two examples that spring immediately to mind.
The fwfr is probably the last place on the internet you would expect adherance to correct grammar and it's long violated a lot worse bastardizations than spaces after slashes.
There most certainly have been incidences of me reformatting long words to fit the format- Mary Poppins being the most apparent. I may not use spaces, but I do use hyphens.
If the MERPs do not apply this formatting, it is only because it's never been explicitly discussed like this. You will be please to hear I will let them know and will apply an update on the database to correct all the previously A/B formatted reviews when I get chance.
Finally, whilst it may not be legal to murder people in your own house just because you put up a sign, you have to admit anyone who then went in anyway and complained they were being attacked with a knife only has themselves to blame.
I am through with discussing this. |
|
|
|
BiggerBoat 
"Pass me the harpoon"
|
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 12:47:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by Salopian
I didn't claim that the level of seriousness was the same, but the analogy is fine: if they were both legal issues then it wouldn't even really be an analogy. (So yes, one of course has the legal right to space wrongly, but that's not the point - they don't have the ethical right within the context of the co-operative enterprise of communicating comprehensibly.)
We used a different analogy last time. Let's say we all go over to Benj's house to play football. Because it's his house, would it be reasonable of him to insist that we play by his own rules, even though there are rules which are universally established and under which everyone already knows how to play? I don't think so.
Well, you'd probably play 'Headers & Volleys' or 'Three and In', and these all have different rules in different regions. So, yes, you'd play house rules, much as you do when playing pool in different pubs. Or cricket: six and out or one-hand-one-bounce. Or golf when you play mulligans. Or darts when you give someone a headstart. In almosy anything where the idea is just to have a bit of fun really.
|
|
|
|
Salopian
"Four ever European"
|
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 12:49:23
|
quote:
Originally posted by benj clews
I reiterate, this is not up for debate.
You are welcome to choose not to debate back, but I am taking for granted that freedom of speech is still allowed within the Fourum. Perhaps I am mistaken.
quote:
You're clearly not considering the bigger picture- mobile devices, visually impaired users requiring the font made large are two examples that spring immediately to mind.
None of that gives any reason why there should be a space in this string of ten characters and not in longer (standard) single words.
quote:
The fwfr is probably the last place on the internet you would expect adherance to correct grammar and it's long violated a lot worse bastardizations than spaces after slashes.
Spacing isn't anything to do with grammar.
Those distortions which take place here occur because of the word limit. These erroneous spaces don't have anything to do with that. (And I also don't agree that the other distortions are 'worse'.)
quote:
There most certainly have been incidences of me reformatting long words to fit the format- Mary Poppins being the most apparent. I may not use spaces, but I do use hyphens.
I was talking about the far greater number of normal non-compound words.
quote:
Finally, whilst it may not be legal to murder people in your own house just because you put up a sign, you have to admit anyone who then went in anyway and complained they were being attacked with a knife only has themselves to blame.
That doesn't make any sense. Murder victims are no more to blame just because the murderer warned them. |
Edited by - Salopian on 10/15/2007 12:50:10 |
|
|
|
Salopian
"Four ever European"
|
Posted - 10/15/2007 : 12:53:07
|
quote:
Originally posted by BiggerBoat
Well, you'd probably play 'Headers & Volleys' or 'Three and In', and these all have different rules in different regions. So, yes, you'd play house rules, much as you do when playing pool in different pubs. Or cricket: six and out or one-hand-one-bounce. Or golf when you play mulligans. Or darts when you give someone a headstart. In almosy anything where the idea is just to have a bit of fun really.
But it would be a collective decision which version to play - in the pub, it would have been established by the regular clientele, not dictated by the landlord. At a person's house, one would not expect them to have more say than any other participant, surely. |
Edited by - Salopian on 10/15/2007 12:53:29 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Punctuation
